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Last Post 02/09/2008 2:22 PM by  Bryan S
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Bryan S
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02/05/2008 1:55 PM
    Don't want to make this a political debate since Chris only lets a few liberials like Jeff anf I on[:)]...but who voted in the primary today?  I hope to after work. It will be the first time I've voted in a primary.
    drgnrcr101
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    02/05/2008 2:31 PM
    I voted this morning before work. hey now im a bleeding heart as well.[:D]
    Lynn
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    02/05/2008 5:49 PM

    [|-)]On the conservative side, , ,  Oh wait, there is no conservative side this year.  Two liberals and Huckabee who has no chance.  Wake me up in November and I'll vote for whoever the Libertarian candidate is.

    I would've strongly considered Lieberman.  Stupid Democrats. 

    yellow&rusting
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    02/05/2008 6:56 PM
    I like Huckabee . . .seems like a nice guy that gives a damn.  Downside is we would sound like a nation of goobers, if we were led by "President Huckabee".
    StephanieC
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    02/05/2008 7:54 PM
    I was the 211th voter at my polling place after work tonight.  This is only the second primary I've voted in (tax referendums on the ballot), but it was kind of cool to be able to help choose delegates to the nat'l conventions.  One delegate candidate I had as a professor--it was odd knowing someone that I had the chance to vote for.  For the record I voted for delegates of less front-running politicians since, if elected and their presidential candidate were to drop out, they would become an independent delegate and be able to vote for whomever they like (not necessarily the same party they belong to).
    Vibe
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    02/05/2008 10:12 PM

    I did my part.  Funny thing today was hearing the last 2 minutes of Rush Limbaugh's show (by accident, I voted for Obama) and Rush's last minute advice was that there are really only three candidates, the two dems and McCain. He continued to say that all three are paths of destruction for this nation, and that everybody should simply vote for the candidate that they would like to see take the blame for the downfall of America.  LOL, wtf!?    [*-)]

    JeffS
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    02/06/2008 12:34 AM

    [img]http://www.willisms.com/archives/ivotedsticker.gif[/img]

     Of particular interest to me were the various candidate's stances on current environmental issues. I'm all for cleaning things up and reducing our dependency on foreign oil, but given my line of work I worry about the future of the automotive industry. Doubling the latest CAFE standards and effectively shedding the problem off on a particular business sector is not the greatest way to deal with the issue as a nation. The Automotive industry can not be made the scapegoat on all of this.

     Regardless, I still found myself voting Democratic as the Republican candidates are far too conservative on social issues. I mean seriously... Roe Vs. Wade was 35 years ago. Ron Paul needs to get over it and stop his efforts to negate a judgement of the supreme court (he's been trying since 2005).

    Bryan S
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    02/06/2008 9:16 AM
    [quote user="Phil"]

    ...Funny thing today was hearing the last 2 minutes of Rush Limbaugh's show ....Rush's last minute advice was that there are really only three candidates, the two dems and McCain. He continued to say that all three are paths of destruction for this nation, and that everybody should simply vote for the candidate that they would like to see take the blame for the downfall of America.  LOL, wtf!?    [*-)]

    [/quote]

    I hate that kind of crap. What's causing the downfall of this nation is an arrogance that we can do what the hell we want because we're the United States of America. Obviously I'd prefer an administration from the Democratic party. However, if the Republicans win they need to make some big ploicy changes. Maybe follow TR's approach instead of what Dick and W have been doing. IIRC Ronald Reagan, despite many people and leaders having serious disagreements with him and his policies, was still able to generate respect among our allies and even some of our adversaries. What worries me the most is that even our friends in the world are tepid about or policies and decisions and look at us more as arrogant bullies than a symbol of how democracy can work.

    It seems to me that there is a confusion between conviction (what the founders had when they decided independance was the only course) and bravado (our current approach) and also between Faith (what unified the founders) and Religion (what often today divides).

    jeyping
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    02/06/2008 11:01 AM

    [quote user="StephanieC"]For the record I voted for delegates of less front-running politicians since, if elected and their presidential candidate were to drop out, they would become an independent delegate and be able to vote for whomever they like (not necessarily the same party they belong to).
    [/quote]

    Proportional representation of delegates like that is so excellent for really making your vote count, so you can truly vote for the candidate that you like the best.  The political process of the primary then re-aligns your vote/voice with the best candidate if your person drops out.  Sometimes it can be a drama where a front-running candidate will even shift their views to try to "woo" independent delegates, representing your view. 

    With a winner-take-all (like the Missouri Republican primary) you feel like you waste your vote if you vote for a less front-running candidate because your vote ends up getting 0 delegates.  Does the Illinois primary have the 15% threshold, requiring a candidate to get at least 15% of the vote to get any delegates?  I know that threshold applies to Democratic primaries nation-wide.  That could affect the motivation to vote for a less front-running candidate too. 

    I'm not saying proportional representation should be used in all aspects of our government (we eventually have to elect one president) but it is very interesting. 
     

    bumsarama
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    02/07/2008 2:09 AM
    As far as CAFE standards go, the automotive industry will cope.  Laws such as these have passed many times and the industry has always adapted.  Its not just the automotive industry either, all industries need to adapt to a greener policy when possible.  I know the conservatives will vigorously slam my "tree-hugging hippie" frame of mind because they won't be alive when we can barely breathe outside due to pollution/greenhouse effect/etc.  They just want to make sure that their stock shares stay up and that corporate america stays filthy rich while the rest of the world goes straight to hell.  Additionally, they parade around the place and use God/Religion frequently, but in the end, they just do the devil's bidding.  Additionally, to me competition and the thrill of motorsport does not imply that I have to have a gazz guzzling beast under my butt.  If cars/racing go green, and driver's have to rely on their driving ability, the thrill and challenge will always be there.  At the end of the day, I can sacrifice my gas guzzling ways if it means that the future of humankind can be prolonged.  Additionally, I am sick of seeing US policies that make us bed-mates with Arab regimes - all fueled by oil. The only and I do mean only problem that I see with the US finally trying to do something about polluting our planet, is lack of sacrifice from other nations.   It would be extremely difficult to spend billions and reduce pollution in the US if China continues to send giant plumes of black smoke into the air. End Rant. Flame-suit is on.
    Bryan S
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    02/07/2008 9:00 AM

    Along with the auto industry buildings are one of the biggest contributors to climate change. Early on "green" design was seen as just not cost effective. However as more owners take the plunge they are finding that sustainable building practices have had a positive affect on their bottom line in lower operating costs, better employee retention and productivity. The need for sustainable products has also spawned new business and markets for many materials that up to now might have been destined for our overflowing landfills.

    Arshad is right, the auto industry will cope, but they have to be forced into coping. It was the same with safety measures and other "improvements". Racing used to be about innovation. Manufacturers and creative mechanics would trot out wild ideas and see how they worked. Now its mostly just about the "the show". I applaud the ALMS series for trying to put innovation back into the sport.

    There is no reason not to strive for more efficient buildings, cars and products. The debate on climate change will go on. You can compare it to a boat on a river. The occupants hear a roar, one person says it sounds like a waterfall, maybe they's better go slower and get close to shore. Another occupant poo poos the idea says there is nothing to worry about, full steam ahead. If you choose the full speed ahead route, chances are when you can confirm that you are indeed approaching a waterfall it will be too late to avoid going over. The evidence is strong that we have in fact created a cycle of major climate change.

    Climate change isn't about saving polar bears, giant redwoods, joshua trees or preserving the glaciers and polar ice. Those are important, but they are the canarys in the coal mine. We're talking about the survival of the planet as we know it. The challange offers many opportunities for innovation on a scale that we haven't seen for 100 years. Its a chance for new products, new business and inovation.

    fiat124girl
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    02/07/2008 10:18 AM
    [quote user="Bryan S"]

    There is no reason not to strive for more efficient buildings, cars and products. The debate on climate change will go on. You can compare it to a boat on a river. The occupants hear a roar, one person says it sounds like a waterfall, maybe they's better go slower and get close to shore. Another occupant poo poos the idea says there is nothing to worry about, full steam ahead. If you choose the full speed ahead route, chances are when you can confirm that you are indeed approaching a waterfall it will be too late to avoid going over. The evidence is strong that we have in fact created a cycle of major climate change.

    Climate change isn't about saving polar bears, giant redwoods, joshua trees or preserving the glaciers and polar ice. Those are important, but they are the canarys in the coal mine. We're talking about the survival of the planet as we know it. The challange offers many opportunities for innovation on a scale that we haven't seen for 100 years. Its a chance for new products, new business and inovation.

    [/quote]

    I do agree with you that climate change is happening, I believe that is evidenced by the rash of odd winter tornado's that have killed 52 people. However, I am not sure that humans are the only reason for that change. Do you really think that we have dramatically altered the path that the earth was on? I tend to think that we have simply accelerated the cycle, not initiated it.

    Now, this does not mean that we should not make changes to our behavior. Things as simple as changing out your light bulbs to compact flourescents, turning your hot water heater down or insulating your home will make a big difference if everyone does it. Yes, corporations need to alter their actions to become more efficient and if the market drives it, business with respond.

    As far as the primary is concerned, I did vote and I voted for Obama. I really want to see something change and I do not think that McCain or Clinton are going to be any different from what we already have.

    chrisitr
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    02/07/2008 11:26 AM

    There's an election coming up?!?!?! 

    Since I don't watch the news or read the news or any of that stuff, should I just not vote?  Do any of them actually have anything good to say?   

    mugwump
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    02/09/2008 11:23 AM

    [quote]It seems to me that there is a confusion between conviction (what the founders had when they decided independance was the only course) and bravado (our current approach)[/quote]

    Living in the Commonwealth, I'm not sure how many people would agree that there is much difference between 'US' policy in 1780 and today, except in 1780, we really did have a Coalition of the Willing...to take England down a peg.  As the current superpower, perhaps that's something to think about.  Anyway, Is the invasion of Iraq really that much different than our invasions of the 19th century?

     In regards to the declining US hegemony, there was an interesting [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/magazine/27world-t.html?scp=1&sq=end+of+hegemony&st=nyt]article[/url] on the NY Times.  I think in many ways the analysis is foolish, especially when it comes to Russia, and it ignores some important issues, but it is something to think about, especially in terms of US/EU relations in the years to come.

    As for the primary process, I think its pretty silly.  I do tend to agree with Jey though, that proportional delegation is better.  I also voting should strictly be limited to party members.

    [quote]I'm not saying proportional representation should be used in all aspects of our government (we eventually have to elect one president) but it is very interesting. [/quote]

    Its interesting you mention this.  Changing to proportional representation was a big issue on the provincial ballot here this past Oct.  It failed.  Overall, I like the concept of representing more viewpoints, but it also makes building any kind of consensus that much more difficult and makes for some very odd political partnerships, which in turn make any kind of longer-term plan impossible.  There are several parlimentary systems where this is the case today, the most prominent in my mind being Italy and Israel, two countries that need a strong, prospectively thinking government to deal with their internal challenges and yet the governments' only concern is trying to hold onto the slippery reins of power.  Instead, they swing this way and that depending on which way the wind of votes blows.

    [quote]As far as CAFE standards go, the automotive industry will cope.[/quote]

    Seriously.  I think we all know they could do it today if they wanted.  Cars woud have to change quite a bit, but its not like we don't have the ability to implement it right now.  That being said, cars are, of course, only part of the problem and other areas should be addressed as well.

     [quote]The only and I do mean only problem that I see with the US finally trying to do something about polluting our planet, is lack of sacrifice from other nations.   It would be extremely difficult to spend billions and reduce pollution in the US if China continues to send giant plumes of black smoke into the air.[/quote]

    I agree with you in premise.  But in reality, all this means is that instead of China sending black plumes into the air, we do it as well.  Better to lead by example and not alienate the rest of the first world, IMO.

     [quote]Climate change isn't about saving polar bears, giant redwoods, joshua trees or preserving the glaciers and polar ice. Those are important, but they are the canarys in the coal mine. We're talking about the survival of the planet as we know it.[/quote]

    I may be killed for typing this, but global warming is a result of the successful machinations of Insecta against their recent rivals for global domination (i.e. homo saipien) so that the poor mammals destroy themselves and, in so doing, unwittingly terraform the planet into more hospitable conditions for what is already the most populous Class on Earth.  Never underestimate the tenacity of a cockroach!

    Bryan S
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    02/09/2008 2:22 PM
    [quote user="mugwump"]

    Never underestimate the tenacity of a cockroach!

    [/quote]

    Suddenly reminded of an apartment I had at Syracuse and Clemmens. German cockroaches at that...they goosestepped!

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